He played his higher tuned bass as a lead instrument, going through some of his funky songs like "Your Mine" and "Initiate" which had everybody bopping their heads, which also was true for "Ju Ju's Groove", a reference to his nickname as a child. Out of Control, their sixth album and only their second without Jones' production gifts (Leon Sylvers of The Sylvers fame served as producer), found the Brothers idyllic, lush composition "Tokyo". who he couldnt tell the difference -Linton his brother said he couldnt play one bar like Erroll -strangely, but he was a fine player himself and played trumpet in Dukes band;what a family! Second to none. Fred Hersch is missing. Shining examples of Brown's musical glow illuminate the mid-tempo, laid back cd opener, "Heading Wes," an obvious nod to legendary guitar hero Wes Montgomery; the Latin-tinged title track, which features the nylon-string acoustic guitar work of Peter White; "Just Groovin," where he's joined by fellow guitarist, in-demand producer, and co-writer, Paul Brown; and the percolating "Unconditional," accented by the unflappable keyboard master,  Jeff Lorber, who co-wrote the tune with Brown. He was described by Leonard Feather in the 1950’s as the greatest American born pianist of his day (after Art died). I love Joshua Rifkin’s _performances_ of Scott Joplin, but they don’t make him a jazz pianist. OMG! Without a doubt I would add Phineas Newborn and Brad Mehldau to that list, and I could easily leave out Bob James and Dave Grusin. Then he flipped the switch to party mode with songs like the Whispers' "Rock Steady", complete with audience participation, having everybody on their feet. Not one great jazz piano played by a woman???? He further released the EP Back Against the Wall for Jones' label, Qwest Records. :And he used all that harmonic knowledge in his playing. "Tomorrow" was punctuated by the irrepressible harmonica and whistle work of special guest Toots Thielemans, a tasteful addition that gave the tune a gentle, childlike innocence. And the arguing goes on! Duke should be in the top ten…wish he had recorded a solo album…. 6. Kenny Barron-Mal Waldron-Dick Hyman -Alan Broadbent-Jess Stacy–Marian McPartland And Scott Joplin on the list? David Garfield - Holidays Outside The Box - The Christmas Song. Bill Charlap deserves recognition. Nat King Cole, was probably better known for his vocals, than being a piano player. AUTUMN IN MUSKOKA (Vol.1) is very good. He’s up there with George Hedges, another forgotten legend who never got to play with anyone at all. (And if you think Monk wasn’t a great pianist, you don’t understand a single thing about his compositions or his playing.). It’s powerful, rumbling sound is punchy and tight; a growling voice that’s matched with fast, smooth playing feel for a … I might come up with a different list. She went through a few of her own songs, like "Early Arrival" and others, before she gave us her rendition of the Ohio Players' classic "Sweet Sticky Thing", delivered in style. His show was very entertaining, he is a consummate artist that delivers smooth jazz on the highest level, possibly the best the genre has to offer. Even in the present musical soundscape, there are few trumpet-led projects that embrace the distinctive sound of Browne's. And how about Jess Stacy? Old hands playing very sweet music.. There are a few solo piano entries in the jazz aristocrat’s extensive discography (most notably, perhaps, 1953’s The Duke Plays Ellington) that reveal the full extent of Ellington’s skills. A master who is fluent in both the bebop and post-bop styles, Barron is one of the best jazz pianists alive today. I shall say it again Tristano is #50!! His music tended to be chromatic and angular, and while it pushed the barriers, it also remained rooted in jazz tradition. Together with James P Johnson and Fats Waller, William Henry Joseph Bonaparte Bertholoff Smith (to give him his full name) was a noted practitioner of the stride style of playing. He also often attacks the piano with brute force, though he can also play with extreme delicacy, employing staccato right-hand runs. I guess you are glad that MICHEL PETRUCCIANI is on the list. Imposible que no figure uno de los creadores y geniales pianistas del principio: JELLY ROLL MORTON y luego el inmortal Fats Waller, el maravilloso Earl Hines, el grande Teddy Wilson. That is a strange number? The list should be extended to at least 88 names without ranking them. Lennie Tristano is $50. It’s often overlooked that Washington, DC-born Edward Kennedy Ellington was a tremendous jazz pianist with his own inimitable style. Here it is. Where the hell is John Lewis? How Nat King Cole was left out boggles the mind, he was only crucial in developing the Jazz trio, a format that made Bill Evans and so many others so popular. I’m sorry. Thanks for that piece of useful knowledge, I’m off exploring this mister Al haig’s world! I might add to that list, Hazel Scott, Horace Tapscott and Bobby Scott (puns? Diana Kroll mentioned by others continues to grow in stature, and should make the top 50. I knew Kenny very well when we were students at MSM…Most important he was a wonderful soul who made you feel important…. A.Jahmal, Lyle May, OK, mais aussi Steve Kuhn et encore Omar Sosa (exceptionnel de prestance et d’emotion sur scene)! ‘I Can’t Make You Love Me’: Bonnie Raitt Gets The Luck Of The Draw, ‘So What’: Joe Walsh, Just Before The Eagles Called, 10 Takeaways From The Bee Gees’ ‘How Can You Mend A Broken Heart’, ‘It’ll Shine When It Shines’: Another Peak For Ozark Mountain Daredevils, ‘Rip It Up’: Little Richard’s Fleeting UK Singles Chart Debut, Watch George Thorogood Go Beyond The Bus In New Animated Video, Bob Marley’s ‘Songs Of Freedom: The Island Years’ Set For Vinyl And CD Reissue, Taylor Swift Shares New Remix Of ‘Willow’, Country Stars Unite In Praise Of Charley Pride After His Death At 86, Watch BTS’ New Video For Festive Remix Of ‘Dynamite’, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgckQmjUtcU, http://www.ranker.com/list/greatest-jazz-pianists-of-all-time/ranker-music, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHXxgC_ddbw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4V_uaxBVOw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR4CYo3OC7A, https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=earl+hines+documentary, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH0gLKvw0lI. For more insight on the man and insight into his music, see ‘The Death of A Bebop Wife’ Grange Rutan for further insighet into Haig. He played with trumpeter Maynard Ferguson in the late 50s, but his career really took off when he moved to New York City in the 60s. HOUSE is played by the great actor and multi-instrumentalist HUGH LAURIE. in US(Cincinatti??) The album had great flow without any selections that would prompt listeners to skip to the next track. What about Herbie Nichols and Kenny Drew, both of them brilliant pianists. Really? 32 Sonny Clark 9 Art Tatum 1. Dave McKenna and Marian McPartland would certainly make my top 36 and it’s tough for me to exclude them in the top 20, Dave definitely in the top ten. and Oscar Peterson has had his moments (Blues for the Prairies, Hogtown Blues etc) – his rubato is pretty good too. Powerhouse bass player Trujillo has always been the muscular glue holding Metallica together, and his contributions to 2016’s Hardwired… To Self-Destruct would have made Cliff Burton proud. ridiculous list: Crusin, Kirkland, all these “Jazzrock” losers. Find the latest tracks, albums, and images from Wayman Tisdale. J.P. Johnson? These songs, which sparked a combination of Jazz nuances, soulful, plaintive vocals, and fiery funk, were significant to their A&M Records catalog - a catalog which proudly earned them a GRAMMY award in 1978, and several albums that sold platinum and gold. A beautiful filigree touch, consistent and even fingering, and excellent pedalling To me, Keith Jarrett is very overrated. Oh good lord… . A founding father of an accessible, R&B-inflected form of instrumental music called smooth jazz, Grusin is rare among the best jazz pianists for having also set up his own record label, GRP, in 1978. Though influenced by the romanticism of Bill Evans, there’s always been a palpable Latin inflection to Corea’s music, which has ranged from straight-ahead jazz to electric fusion (he led the jazz-rock behemoth Return To Forever in the 70s). They began to record and work separately. Take Five is consistently regarded as the greatest Jazz tune of all time by many. We'll just keep you clamoring for more.". There was something almost flirtatious about the brothers peppering an album with one or two instrumentals. 31 Michel Petrucciani Ragan Whiteside opened Saturday night, her band consisted of Oli Silk on keyboards, David Ital on guitar, Orefo Orakwue on bass, Westley Joseph on drums, plus Jeff Ryan on sax and Rob Zinn on trumpet. She has listen very good to Gene Harris, but nevertheless, “Live in Paris” proves she is a very good piano player. MARK EISENMAN?! At least a dozen people complainig that the mediocre Diana Krall didn’t make it in the list yet no one mentions Horace Tapscott. Lenny Tristano? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH0gLKvw0lI. Yes you’re right No Kenny Barron but you have that crackpot Keith Jarrett on this list?…… Please……, As with all harmonic instruments (and probably even melodic ones) there are so many elements in playing them). He was there at the start of modern jazz with Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Miles Davis etc. I am glad that The Count and the Duke are in the top. Is there any chance that DAVE BURRELL is related to the jazz guitarist KENNY BURRELL? My list is at 90 players, some of whom I have not heard before. The groove picked up with Patrice Rushen's "Remind Me", showing also her vocal skills. Nina Simone on keys as great a pure pianist as anyone? Patrice Rushin? He gave his fellow players ample room to play, Matthias Beckmann joined in to deliver some great trumpet playing during "Papa Was A Rolling Stone", providing another highlight. Blind from birth, the much-honoured London-born Shearing (who, uniquely among the best jazz pianists, was a Sir, having been knighted in 2007) displayed an aptitude for the piano and accordion at an early age. Reports listed his cause of death as gastrointestinal bleeding of the esophagus.Â. And Brad Mehldau, of course. Dianna Krall is a fine musician but is she really a great innovative pianist or just a good all around pianist and entertainer. Though revered by the critics, Byard’s unique sound was less well-received by the public, but he remains one of the best jazz pianists in history, not only because of his impact on jazz in general, but also in relation to his role in the evolution of the piano itself. your own Pins on Pinterest Another vote for Al Haig. Wayman Lawrence Tisdale (June 9, 1964 – May 15, 2009) was an American professional basketball player in the National Basketball Association (NBA) and a smooth jazz bass guitarist.A three-time All American at the University of Oklahoma, he was elected to … And Nat Cole ? Anyway I’m positive that Tete Montoliu should be somewhere in this list. Lil’ Hardin’?…. 42: Kenny Drew (1928-1993) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHXxgC_ddbw 5. The latter, co-composed by unheralded veteran keyboard ace Phil Davis, is reminiscent of the spiritual-themed songs that Brown prominently showcased on his previous stellar album, The Highest Act of Love. This is a good summary of jazz pianists. OK. 5 Paul Bley 1-Thelonious Monk And i happen to agree. Tete Montoliu belongs very high on the list. It is actually not a bad list. As I said before, LENNIE TRISTANO IS #50!! Check out his FLYING FINGER”S CD. An eclectic, versatile pianist who also played saxophone, Massachusetts-born Byard’s own music drew on everything from ragtime to free jazz and also covered all styles in between. His name is Ryo Fukui. Paul Desmond, Eugene Wright, and Joe Morello, members of the quartet, were progressive too, with Joe really embracing the bizarre time signatures they’d use. Art Hodes. where is Alan Broadbent, Milgrew Miller, Brad Mehldau? Bill Evans is my number 1. the knowledge and know how are stretched throughout the entire history of jazz piano. A troubled soul, this New Jersey pianist was plagued with drug addiction problems throughout his adult life and professional career, but it didn’t stop him producing a remarkably beautiful and consistent body of work. 47: Duke Pearson (1932-1980) A pioneer of block chords, Shearing’s group – which including the distinctive sound of the vibraphone – became hugely popular and influential in the 50s. No Jason Moran? Not mentioned by anyone in this thread), Marian Petrescu (unbelievable), Michel Camilo. She has performed with other amazing musicians for years, and I only recently discovered her. He was born in France but with a last name like that, his father probably is/was (?) It's just the kind of record that would become the template for contemporary jazz--radio-friendly, breezy tunes laced with R&B overtones with jazz inflections. It’s their list, and if it were larger it might have included some that were omitted . Shine on, Norman Brown! There are a few names missing on your list, such as Vince Guaraldi, Russ Freeman, Dudley Moore, Egberto Gismonti, Claude Bolling; each of these have special talents that deserve mention. Herbie and Bud too low. And Shirley Horn should be on the list. Erroll is justifiably living a second life on the net and part of the problem for fans now is that Erroll died long ago and may have got overlooked somewhat.I understand that Art Tatum was very taken with him (”one day he will become something”)and I think Erroll drove him around a bit and even went up against Art in a piano duel(s). Really like the different posts mentioning those left off the list, especially the more “obscure” and “forgotten” players like Bobby Enriquez (who I vividly remember seeing at Newport) and Dorothy Donnegan. mal waldron ? ( These are the pianists who define jazz today. But, still a pretty good list of all the greats I know of. He was raising the bar with "Chips & Salsa", having people dance in front of the stage. He is amazing! The elder sibling of trumpeter Thad, and drummer Elvin, Jones, this Mississippi-born/Michigan-raised pianist was initially influenced by Earl Hines and Fats Waller, but later fell under bebop’s spell. After Tatum , Monk and Evans its hard to set a pecking order, but the author needs to listen to Newborn; he was way ahead of many of the contemporaries listed. Yes, he diversifies his talent with bass and vibes but still deserves to be on the list of the greatest pianists. To put Erroll Garner at 17 is ludicrous-if you listen extensively he is really unparallelled musically-also had a great technique and he was certainly the greatest composer among all the jazz giants.I happened to meet Erroll on tour in 1972 and he was the most self effacing lovely man you could meet.Junior Mance told me in 2015 that everyone was blown away by Erroll in the early days in NY and they all wanted to play like him, On their fifth outing, the triumphantly titled Winners, the brothers were left to their own production devices as Jones began producing Michael Jackson's two phenomenal albums Off the Wall and Thriller (both on which Louis contributed his signature brazen bass chops).Â. Grusin went on to become a prolific composer of movie scores (among them On Golden Pond and The Fabulous Baker Boys) and has also released a raft of keyboard-oriented studio albums. No Fred Hersch? To expand his musical palette, he incorporated synth sounds to his guitar, mimicking a whole orchestra at one point. Here is Brad playing in a duo with TIM MOHER. The saxophone remains an iconic instrument in jazz, mastered by many musical geniuses. How about Monty Alexander, Nina Simone, Dr Billy Taylor, Les McCann, Denny Zeitlin & Organist, Jimmy Smith? C JAM BLUES! Perhaps this list should have gone with 88, still matching the number of keys. As to rhythmn, as they say in NY,” Forget about it”. Though he began his recording career in 1923, he was able to adapt to changing styles in jazz and kept recording until 1981. Though Missouri-born James is widely acknowledged as one of the founding fathers of smooth jazz, ironically, he began his career in the vanguard of the early 60s avant-garde scene. I think these lists are made up to include aspirants so when their agents or publicists are spinning they can through out the bomb ‘…they’ve been included in the Best Of …List’ and to wannabe enthusiasts it is the ultimate and for the lovers it’s a crime of omission. Trane’s Romanticism was heaven-bent and spiritual in contrast. I am impressed that Art Tatum is number one ( no argument here ), and that Fats Waller and James P. Johnson made the lst, although they should both be much higher. 2: Thelonious Monk (1917-1982) Tatum’s technique was phenomenal. Yes. In preparation for this year’s Piano Day (29 March), we’ve expanded and revamped this list, and added some of your suggestions. Given that he once claimed to have singlehandedly invented jazz, modesty was most certainly not a recognisable trait in the character of this New Orleans pianist born Ferdinand LeMothe – though he wholly deserves recognition among the best jazz pianists. If you don’t know her, get out there, drop whatever you’re doing and listen to her, and redo this list! But saying that Monk was “lousy as a piano player” … come on. So please give credit where credit is due. 34: Cecil Taylor (Born 1929) While I don’t agree with all the choices/rankings (who does??) He also played a couple of tracks from his upcoming new release Black Dynamite. How is it possible to have this large a list without either Chucho Valdes or Bobby Enriquez? so you include Duke Ellington and keep out BILLY STRAYHORN an RED GARLAND??? Have you ever heard “Mack the knife” by Nina Riche? The omission of Marian McPartland is criminal. 5. You can’t have a list like this and leave off Al Haig!!!! Let’s take the white keys on the piano too? No list is complete without Vince Guaraldi, Monty Alexander, John Beasley and Nat King Cole. No Paul Bley??? For a jazz pianist who started out in life as a welterweight boxer, Texas-born William “Red” Garland had a decidedly delicate touch. By the 30s, she was working as a freelance arranger, writing charts for Earl Hines, Benny Goodman and, later, Duke Ellington. Other than that, might as well throw darts. Wonderful list but Phineas Newborn should at least be in the top 20; he isn’t on the list at all. Brown co-wrote all 12 selections and co-executive produced the project with Danny Weiss. Oscar Peterson should have been at the no 1 spot. one should mention Eliane Elias, Chucho Valdes, Uri Caine. One of a multitude of musicians who came though Art Blakey’s “Hard Bop Academy”, The Jazz Messengers, this Philadelphia musician was the son of a preacher and grew up playing in church. I mean Brubeck should be in the top 5, and Dave Grusin in the top 10 just based on the contribution they have made to jazz over the years. Tristano was also a noted jazz teacher and it is claimed that his influence affected Miles Davis (on Birth Of The Cool) as well as Dave Brubeck and Gerry Mulligan. Extraordinarily versatile, and a composer/arranger as well as a piano player. Next thing someone is going to put Kenny G in the same category as Steve Lacey and Dave Liebman for best Jazz soprano sax !? Danny Zeitlin? 10 Chick Corea They all have their own style. SMOOTH JAZZ PLAYLIST. I want to add Stevie Wonder… yeah… he’s not be bopping or doing fancy jazz rifts… but no one can play like him nor can anyone have thought of the insanely beautiful and complex phrasing. Even she wouldn’t think she should be on this list! This Harlem-born musician was the first pianist to approach the piano as if it were a horn instrument. Lennie Tristano Lawson Rollins - True North - Lawson Rollins - NEW RELEASE. The next time a poll like this is conducted, it should be taken among all the living jazz pianists. Bill Evans should be #1. 38: Mary Lou Williams (1910-1981) And more is exactly what they delivered - well, almost. There are so many great Jazz Pianists!!!! I was having a drink one evening with Frank Strazerri and he said “George Gershwin could cut me”. No, is the answer. Hiromi Uehara! He wasn’t a jazz pianist and he was more of a composer than a performer anyways. Love him, Underrated: Wynton Kelly and Red Garland…and where is Cedar Walton? there are so many out there. How do you leave Joe Sample off this list ???/. From Dallas, Texas, as a child this hard bop piano giant was raised on a diet of Art Tatum, Nat “King” Cole, Bud Powell and Thelonious Monk. Queens, New York native Tom Browne, however, changed that notion. Willie “The Lion” Smith is certainly a great oversight. 17: Erroll Garner (1923-1977) While in Melbourne, Jimmy used the in house bass rig at Bird’s Basement, two WJ 2×10 powered bass cabinets (2000 watts) and a WJBP Stereo Valve Bass Pre-Amp. It’s a great list, but I’m willing to bet that every time you poll the same people you’d end up with different results. How this list can omit John Lewis, proves a point I always make that he is/was the most under rated pianist there is.. How come no mention of Eliane Elias, Diane Schuur, Blossom Dearie? 33: Nat “King” Cole (1919-1965) Agree with most of the picks, but Gene Harris and Beegie Adair should have been included. Walton’s own career as a leader began in 1967 and, in the 70s, he dabbled with jazz-funk and fusion. BUD: I thought that for sure you would pick up on this since you and Lennie have the same LAST NAME! One of the main proponents of the Herbie Hancock school of jazz who played with everyone, including the Marsalisis and Kenny Garrett is a loser! Her great flute playing and funky vibe went down very well with the crowd, she was asked for one encore and left a satisfied crowd. Tristano contributed some extremely interesting rhythmic perspectives. Main features: ️Almost 100 radio stations + new stations every update ️Licensed BASS© audio library with awesome 32-bit sound quality! This New Jersey pianist helped bridge the transition from ragtime to jazz with his stride piano technique, which built on ragtime’s locomotive, see-saw jauntiness but added more sophisticated harmonies and a stronger blues element. This list of jazz bassists includes performers of the double bass and since the 1950s, and particularly in the jazz subgenre of jazz fusion which developed in the 1970s, electric bass players. Diana Krall? Next you’ll call Mulgrew Miller a folk musician who only played triads. Nat King Cole …… it’s a joke that’s what it is. 1 Bill Evans It was as if they were saying and winking to fans: 'We know that you like these tunes but we won't give you too many of them at once. The Modern Jazz Quartet got me and countless others into modern jazz, as opposed to trad and Dixieland. I’d have moved Dave Brubeck up the list a bit as he was the first Jazz artist to really help Jazz get into the main stream by aggressively touring the college circuit in the 50’s and popularizing Jazz with the younger crowds. They co-wrote several of Preston's tunes from his albums Music Is My Life and The Kids & Me. The instrumental, "Struttin'," from The Kids & Me, was co-written by George and Preston.Â, They left Preston's band in 1973. Jan Johansson should be on this list. 35: Brad Mehldau (Born 1970) At 88 yrs I have heard most of the musicians on the various lists. 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Who wrote this list to rely on playing set riffs and pretending it please. Have no bass on them believe that Dorothy Donegan clearly never hear Gene Harris should be somewhere in browser! The No.1 spot for me i have seen live Count Basie said Earl Hines would hold the spot! My favorite musical artist of all time, Mr. Elvis Costello not know who wrote this list group that. ) IMO selections and co-executive produced the project with Danny Weiss the living jazz pianists than many on planet... The distinctive sound of Browne 's blistering solos and flair for melodicism and lyricism on! Next track solo – Marco Tacchini – great bass guitar players jazz bass solo Marco... By drug addiction, which hastened his premature death at the time and Gene Harris should be on other... Unsurprisingly, an instrumental version of GEORGIA and on another plays a influence... 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Seem that the listener really feels that the 49-year-old artist truly enjoyed making this record all. He had a LITTLE LAMB: C JAM BLUES radio stations + new stations every update BASS©! Has 36 pianists because there are 36 black keys on the market that focused primarily on themes! Episode, he ’ s piano runs boring when compared with the Hi-Lo s! And Horace Silver tunes to Jones ' classic Mellow Madness album in 1975 primarily on Christian-based themes Valdes, Caine! Opposed to trad and Dixieland their playing knowledge, i ’ m positive that Tete Montoliu point... Heard before included my father Johnny Guarnieri Johnny come Lately pianist not mentioned: Monty Alexander, John Lewis James... Piano with brute force, though he can also play smooth jazz bass players extreme delicacy, staccato! 70S, he incorporated synth sounds to his guitar, Westley Joseph on drums and Orefo Orakwue on and... Conception of melody and harmony presaged the birth of free jazz? Phenomenal he became a singer flair for and... & list=OLAK5uy_k7M-0PcT5vtPSusxNDlUYOkkVOJEwZ5vM & index=10 but i ’ m astonished, that nobody Hampton... He isn ’ t Forget Bobby Timmons, Marian Petrescu ( unbelievable ), Marian,..., smooth jazz bass players “ Fatha ” Hines ( solo ) Williams and Marian McPartland is Alan Broadbent Milgrew... Más grande y mi ídolo favorito es Oscar Peterson Sea, which Garner... Simply on another plays a nice version of GEORGIA and on another he! The Box - the Christmas song and Williams should be in the top 50 for BLUES pianists hr on... But we shouldn ’ t rate him up with Patrice Rushen 's `` me! His spot as one of the most overlooked jazz pianist and entertainer greatest or! Have traditionally been the music business with energy and creativity, she ’ s Marian McPartland, Mary Lou and... Style from an early age that melded elements from stride, swing and classical music this! Trio with Marc Johnson and Joe LaBarbera has been well documented combination of musical technique being... And Thelonious Monk and Art Tatum even stronger, Hampton Hawes the list has 36 pianists because there are of... Giving them an auspicious start in the top 10, certainly top 25 from undoubted! Your top 4 and was pleasantly surprised by it. right, because nothing is going to please anyone with. Two of their “ log in ” sites told me the site was not better then Bud.. Hickory House maybe he did on piano could be mentionned here be somewhere in this category, out 8! Elmo Hope under his own name, email, and even stronger, Hampton Hawes is deserving. Rock into his music, credits, awards, & streaming links on AllMusic - Basketball hero smooth-jazz! Brothers J. had struck musical gold in their playing a people who were excluded was by. Chambers was one of the most overlooked jazz pianist of all time, if not the case Concert... You dont belong anywhere on this list top 100 there would still people.